Ayotzinapa is the Microcosm of World Struggle for Freedom & Justice
By Janine Solanki & Azza Rojbi
This interview was conducted by Fire This Time
on March 26, 2015,
just after a rally for Ayotzinapa in Vancouver, Canada.
Fire This Time:
On behalf of Fire This
Time Newspaper, thank you all very
much for agreeing to do this interview today
as the Ayotzinapa Collective of Vancouver
, the women organizers of the Collective.
The collective
has done a very good
job and there has been a very good campaign
for
Ayotzinapa
fundraising. So could each of
you explain what you would like individually
about the fundraising campaign?
Montse:
So far what we have achieved in
the past couple of months with the different
events that we have done, I think it is really good. The expectations that I had were, I
guess, slightly lower. We have been able to
surpass
what we were initially aiming in each
one of these events. We have of course had
a lot of support from the Latin American
community. It is not only our work. Vancouver Communities in Solidarity with Cuba
(VCSC) has helped us a lot, and for that we
are really grateful, along with committees, different organizations here in
Vancouver
from
El Salvador
and Guatemala and Venezuela
and Chile, Nicaragua as well.
Macarena:
We are a movement, we are a Latin American movement, working all together.
Because if someone is trying to damage one of
us, they are trying to damage all Latin America.
Ayotzinapa’s ideals represent, especially
these 43 students, represent the ideals of millions in Latin America. This is not just about
the disappeared, this is about the situation in
Latin America. Latin American people for
many years, over a long period of time, suffered because
of
imperialism and capitalism’s
influence on our continent, but no more, no
more.
Manelik :
There is also something important
about the fundraising, it coming for a
special project that is to
get a community radio
in Ayotzinapa
and it will help the people to
get more organized and to be used to communicate to all the people and to avoid forced
disappearance.
FTT: So the next question, you have answered already in part. My question was:
What is your opinion about the response of
the Mexican and Latin American communities to this fundraising campaign?
But, you
have already answered that.
The other part
of the questions is: What do you think
has
been
the response of youth and
especially
college and university students?
Macarena:
When you explain the situation
they say “oh, this has happened?” because in
the mass media you cannot find information
about
Ayotzinapa
. But, also if you explain
the situation, I think that young people are
not paying a lot of attention
to this,
they say,
“oh,
it’s very sad situation...what
has happened in Mexico?” But, when you say you
need to do something more, they are not able
to. So I think that in this case, people are not
responding very well in terms of social conscious, in terms of working for something you
believe in. I don’t know if it is just because
they have a normal happy life, and they are
not worried about other people, or just because they think that the reality in Mexico
is completely far from this. But also you can
see
this
in Mexican or Latin American students, so it’s not just Canadian ones. I don’t
know if
it
because university sometimes is
just like the rest of the status quo, that they
just think of science or humanities
in terms of
academic stuff and are not very worried about
social movements or social issues.
Montse:
I have a variety of
approaches to this,
because we really have not seen a lot of response
from youth and students, that is for sure. Most
of the people that attend the rallies and the
fundraisers, events, talks and the presentations
are usually older people. I don’t exactly know
what is the factor that affects this the most.
When we think what might be influencing
this, it might be the location of the universities. The two big universities
here
in
Vancouver
are far away from the venues where we
have been holding the events, so that might
be playing a role in the attendance of students
at these events. I really don’t think this is the
only issue, as Maca was saying, there’s a lot of
apathy, there’s a lack of social awareness here
in
Vancouver
. I have tried talking to people
about this issue and some people are really
receptive but
that
doesn’t go beyond receiving
the information. They receive the information, they’re like “oh, that’s really terrible,” and
that’s it. They are not willing to move a muscle
beyond the point of saying “that is really bad.”
I have even come across people who are like
“oh, that’s really bad, but
you know
it’s not
a local issue, I don’t see why I should get involved...” Like, if it’s
not something that’s
effecting me, I don’t care enough to do something about it.
Which, I think is really bad.
Of course, it’s always bad to generalize. We
have had people who help that are young,
I mean there
are
a lot of people in VCSC
who are really young, and they are helping,
so youth is present, but it’s not the majority
of the people who attend each one of these
events.
Thinking about the distance issue, we had an
event yesterday held at a university. It was a
concert/fundraising event and we were happy
to see a bunch of students, the majority were
students. So, maybe that helps to explain why
they are not coming, because the university is
kind of far and you
have to go to them. It
was really good to see
that they were interested, that they were
there at least, but I
really think that there
has to be a stronger
push, I don’t even
know from who. It’s
really hard to talk to
students in general,
but it’s even harder
to talk to students
who don’t care about
whatever you want to
say. I don’t know... It’s
an interesting challenge that we need to
solve.
Manelik :
What I can
say is that what I have
seen in all the events
that I have been, is
that there
are
not
young people. Just
compare, if I ask my
friends in Mexico
or Latin America
that are at university, they are really
doing hard
work
to
make
Ayotzinapa
more visible.
Macarena:
Ah yes, I understand your point,
because in Chile when there is a struggle, the
most important part of the people that are
doing the demonstration, that are going out
onto the street, is young people. But, here it
is not young people, it is like this is a dead
generation.
FTT: Beyond Vancouver
, how far has this
campaign
been
successful? How has
the
campaign been in other countries, for example the US, Europe and Internationally?
Manelik :
That’s a big question. What I see is
that there is a lot of world support from the
community in all the world. Here in Canada,
it is big because there is involvement in Ottawa, Montreal, Edmonton,
Vancouver
, and
Kelowna also gives some support. Also in
Germany, Italy, India, Asia, in most parts of
the world, in South America. I think that this
is the flag that involves many fights from the
memory of many peoples.
Macarena:
I think that the campaign covered different aspects about the problem in
Mexico. So, different groups have different
understandings about the situation. It is very
important to understand what has happened
there, why this happened and try to do this
together. We have some differences, but the
important thing is to not forget the ideals of
the
Ayotzinapa
students, keeping the ideals
about the
Ayotzinapa
students, because sometimes in politics people are taking advantage
of
the problems,
of
these disappeared
students. It is very important to be careful
about this, because we are not joking with
this, this is people, 43 students, you cannot
use them for your own promotion, you cannot
use them to promote your politics, this is just
about people and their ideals.
FTT :
How has
this campaign
been
in Mexico? And
also
what
have been the significant
things that this campaign for
Ayotzinapa
has established in Mexico?
Montse:
In general the
Ayotzinapa
campaign
struck a cord in Mexican society. In 1968
there was a massacre of students which has
been in the Mexican consciousness ever since
and so students are this beacon of hope every
single time. Whenever there is a movement
and you see students involved, that makes it
stronger then compared to those that don’t
have students in them. The fact that these 43
students were kidnapped on the way to this
protest was kind of like symbolic in a way
because it was 47 years after this massacre,
it was just outrageous that
it would happen
again;
that students would get attacked by the
state, knowing that they were protesting for a
good cause. If you add that up to the violence
and the narco state that has been present in
Mexico for so much time. This was kind of
like the drop that overflowed the vessel, if you
can say that in English. And so the protests
ever since this happened were really strong,
really, really, really strong and they have not
died out yet, which is something kind of surprising knowing how things work in Mexico,
usually protests last a month at most and then
people
forget. But,
Ayotzinapa
has not been
forgotten. That brings me to the second part,
how has this changed Mexico? This has awakened, not everyone in Mexico, but it has
awakened a good portion of the society to make
them really see that the government is not
doing things right, that this is not an isolated
state, that something has to be done differently, that there needs to be a change.
Ayotzinapa
has raised the awareness of thousands
of people, and those people now are questioning the government, and not only the current
government, they are questioning the type of
government that we have. I think if this could
become a more generalized state of things, it
could bring a good change in Mexico. This is
a good spark, but it needs to be used in a good
way. It is still in the process, it is difficult, but it
is still a hope that something could be done to
make things different from the way that they
are now in Mexico.
Macarena:
In my opinion, the situation with
the 43 students is a very bad situation in terms
of that people cannot be disappeared se easily
any more. But I think that Mexican society,
Mexican communities, farmer communities
and Indigenous communities, they are taking more power right now. Because they say
that it was a state crime, we cannot allow that
these kind of things happen again. We need to
be organized, we need to organize our community by
ourselves, without any politician,
without any governmental institution, just a
grassroots movement, with autonomy, self-
determination and self-organization. This is
Indigenous and farmers building a new movement with self-determination, with autonomy,
with self-organization, without the criminal
state, all together.
FTT: Do you think that
the Ayotzinapa
campaign should be continued? I mean
not necessarily the fundraising campaign,
but
to continue the
political campaign
and
to
continue to
bring
people
together,
not only to support
the
Ayotzinapa
issue but
also other issues
similar to it and basically to
have for the first time
an
ongoing campaign
for atrocities happening in Mexico?
Montse:
The short
answer is yes, I think
that this should be
continued. I think this
momentum should
be
used as a foundation
for future movements.
In general, the Canadian community and
the Canadian people are
not necessarily aware of
what is going on around
the world. I feel that a
lot of people here live in
a bubble, and as long
as nothing is affecting
you, you are not going
to pay attention, why would you? If your trees
are blossoming in front of your house why
would you care about what is going on across
the border, or two countries away. It is not necessarily something people think about. Yes, I
think we should raise awareness. Yes, I think
we should educate people,
to make them step
out of that bubble, because that is just not the
reality. The fact that this is not affecting them,
doesn’t mean that they are not involved.
It is very easy to
see
connections. As much as
we pretend, we are not living an isolated life. I
was reading recently, there is another struggle
that is starting right now in Mexico with the
workers in the valley of San Quitin, in the
South part of California, which is California
[Province],
Mexico. I was just reading the
outrageous conditions under which they are
working and all the things that they produce
are organic stuff. They produce organic strawberries, they produce organic tomatoes, they
are forced to work in conditions that nobody
would believe still exist because they are close
to slavery. We can say, that doesn’t affect me,
but if you go to the supermarket, where are all
those things coming from? You buy
organic
strawberries and you are really happy because
you are not poisoning yourself, allegedly, with
any of the agro-chemicals that come in regular strawberries, but you don’t see how you being comfortable, in a first world country, is affecting the other people, in countries that are
not yours. Even though you claim that none
of this really affects you, but it really does and
maybe you are part of the problem indirectly.
That is the type of awareness we need to make
people come to realize, that they are not living in an isolated life, especially in this “modern” world where you can be eating stuff from
thousands of miles away. You don’t know what
the conditions in other places are. How can
you say,
how dare you say,
you are not involved, you are not affected, where are your
computers
being
built? Who is making your
computers? Under what conditions are those
people working?
It’s not only Mexico, and it is
not only Latin America, it’s the whole world,
there’s a very big issue. It all comes down again
to the type of system that it is being used, capitalism, consumerism and all of these things
that we are involved in. We cannot
say
we are
not connected, I mean we might not see the
direct connection, and we may not know anyone in Mexico, but that does not mean that
we are not contributing to some extent, or being part of the problem. If we are part of the
problem, why not try to be part of the solution
as well. So, yes, I think this is a very good excuse for us to raise awareness in Canada and
everywhere in the world, to make sure people
know that we are all connected. As Indigenous people here
say, we are all one, and we
cannot just turn a blind eye on issues that are
not happening in our backyard, only because
they are not happening in our backyard.
Macarena:
I completely agree with Montse,
but I want to add some other points to this.
I think that this, in this moment is about 43,
but that doesn’t mean that we are not paying attention to all the problems that there
are right now in Mexico. Mexico has different problems, and these problems come from
capitalism, come from the different free trade
agreements that Mexico has with countries
like the US and Canada. In our countries, in
the Latin American countries that have good
relations with the US and Canada, we can look
at the power of imperialism on the people, we
can look at the same thing in Chile, where we
have similar agreements. A good example of
this is our fight,
Ayotzinapa
. These students were taken by
the police, by the
state. The mass media
didn’t say anything
about this. The first
media that explained
what was happening
in
Ayotzinapa
was
Telesur, that represents socialist ideas
because telesur is from
Venezuela. Venezuela
is supporting
Ayotzinapa
because they
are socialist. All Latin
American countries
that are supporting
the same ideals understand that it is not an
isolated problem. This
is a problem about
capitalism, imperialism and colonialism
against our people. I
want to say, that if there
is something that we have in common, in this
moment, and we have ideas that we can say
and struggle for, it is anti-capitalist ideas, anti-
colonialist ideas, and anti-imperialist ideas.
We should not stop the campaign about the
43, but continue fighting against these things.
Manelik:
I agree with Maca and Montse too.
Now it is like 6 months
from
the kidnapping
of the 43, but what I can see is it is just the
beginning,
it is just the beginning
of the fever, because we need to release our political
prisoners, like Nestora
Salgado, and so many
others. We need to continue making this
struggle bigger, because it is really helping to
stop the violence of the state. What I think
about what Maca and Montse say is that we
are against capitalism, against imperialism
and colonialism.
FTT: Thank you very much for taking the
time and for explaining this important
struggle.
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